Crafting the perfect message is much more than throwing words at the wall and hoping one of them sticks. Tailoring messages to a target audience is a surefire way to see better results not just in the corporate world, but at home, on blogs, and especially on book store shelves. Helping us see the importance of carefully selecting our words is author and illustrator Shay Fan, who has worked in marketing and Public Relations for companies like Skype and YouTube. She is also represented by Andrea Walker of Azantian Literary Agency. If you care about building your personal brand and communicating effectively, this is one interview you can’t afford to miss.

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Shay, it’s a pleasure having the opportunity to pick both sides of your brain today! You’ve worked on a variety of exciting projects for companies like Skype and YouTube among others that span the communication spectrum- content creation, content management, message refinement, marketing, copywriting, advertisements, influencer marketing research and selection, to name a few, and all the while nurturing your inner passion to create books for the littlest minds of all. Wow. You are truly entrenched in the fiber of communicating intended messages to get intended reactions. Would you open up your life a little for us? What got you looking through the microscope of communication and when did you begin noticing the value of carefully curating a message?

Hi Rhys, first of all, thank you for bestowing me the privilege of being a part of your blog! You’ve built up a fantastic community. I love the insights and guidance you share for people interested in creating books, branding, and marketing.

The short answer is the constant realization that everything we humans do and create is about connecting with each other. Whether it is a logo or a beautiful spread of a book, the aim is for another human to consume it, remember it, and react to it.

Then, there’s the long-winded answer: I’ve always loved writing and reading. I thought authors were superhuman and their powers were the ability to transcend time and space with their words. But, ever the pragmatic child, I knew I had to “make a living.”

Early on, I decided to be a lawyer because at the time I thought…lawyers read and write a lot, right? Okay, honestly, I also watched The West Wing and was obsessed with being the next CJ Cregg.

My dreams of entering the legal world quickly dissipated and I was left wondering what I could do instead. I pivoted my career to a public relations agency, which made me appreciate how messages from companies were carefully deliberated and disseminated. Back then, excuse me while I get my cane, prominent news outlets were still the best way to build awareness and consideration, and to really shape the narrative. But then, internet forums provided a direct way to listen to and talk with consumers. TONS of consumers, in real time!

As we all know, Facebook ballooned, Twitter became a thing (yes, I started mine in 2008 for “research” as a young marketer) and then came all the other connective digital platforms, springing up like weeds.

Suddenly, all of us were able to throw out our own messages into the world. There’s no question that it was more important than ever to be considerate and deliberate.

Another example that highlighted the importance of being thoughtful: digital advertisements can be updated and changed quickly. In some of the work I did for companies, we’d swap a certain word or call to action. Did it matter? Yep.

Changes to colors, words, you name it…could yield an increase (or decrease) in clicks. I thought that was fascinating and continue to find it incredibly interesting. But at the end of the day, it’s still all about communicating and connecting with intent.

Oh, and I still think authors are superhuman so of course I couldn’t let go of the dream to become one myself one day (fingers crossed).

I love how you said, “everything we humans do and create is about connecting with each other.” Our world and life is absolutely relational. It’s fascinating the impact minute changes have in not only making those connections but yielding intended results. Could you elaborate on any interesting surprises you’ve found while testing and implementing branding messages with your clients? Things that come to mind are perceptions based off colors and styles or where target markets actually work and play versus where they were assumed to work and play, etc.

I think that the most surprising thing isn’t really that surprising…but certain calls to action can make a difference.

For example, a call to action like “Download Free” yielded more clicks than “Download Now” but it also varied from country to country! When I did user research at one company, I watched people navigate around a website in real-time. This was for a biotech company, so the audience was a very niche demographic.

Certain things I took for granted (“That button to the menu is TOTALLY clear”) wasn’t really clear to some people. I was listening to a Hidden Brain podcast (I am addicted to that show) and there was one episode that talked about how there are many parts of our psyche that we can’t access. But clearly, an amalgam of all the things we encounter help us make those seemingly ‘automatic’ decisions every day.

I think with brands, it’s cliché (but all clichés are rooted in some truth) that it’s about having that distinct look, that voice and building that relationship with people you care most about.

It also matters how often brands pop up in our minds. Like any friend, if you never come around, it’s out of sight and out of mind.

And to talk about your last question… where people “work” and “play”…yes, there is such a distinction, I think. But the two things can happen on the same platform, which is interesting.

We’re seeing an trending rise in personal branding. It’s not that we as people never had a brand, but these days it’s garnering the interest and attention it’s perhaps always deserved. What’s Shay Fan’s brand if we had to put you in a box and label it?

Ha! This is such a hard question.

I think it’s especially tough because I, and you, am an ever evolving human and oftentimes a faulty work in progress. But if I were to brand myself it’d be “Study Partner in Life” because I don’t have the expertise to be a professor and I don’t just want to absorb like a student.

I like collaboration and derive the most joy when something I write resonates with someone else, even my lengthy, ranting Facebook posts to close friends and acquaintances.

I could also see being labeled the “Pragmatic Dreamer” because I find that’s often the two tensions that we all grapple with in life.

That’s a really unique way of describing yourself! It makes me think back on the “few” study partners I had. There was a unity of mind in becoming better and helping the other person become better. There was no animosity or jealousy. A situation truly founded on spurring each other on to the best version of ourselves possible. I think all of us would benefit greatly from having a “Study Partner in Life” along for the ride! Lately you’ve been making more waves in the #kidlit realm. You’re a 2020 #PBChat mentee and a 20/21 WDNB finalist. You run a FirstDrafttoFinalBook bookstagram and share your sketches and doodles online. What are your top 3 focus areas right now in publishing?

In the immediate short term, I’m seeking an agent that is the right match for me. My fingers and toes are crossed! Then, the hope of course is to sell a manuscript.

Like so many other authors and illustrators in kidlit, being traditionally published is a lifelong dream that I could wax on and on about.

The next focus, other than continuing to produce and keep building my body of work, is to keep my new blog, FirstDrafttoFinalBook going. I’ve really loved the kidlit realm where I get to connect with so many amazing people via Twitter, like you – and it’s been fantastic to hear people say that the blog concept has been really useful.

I’d love for it to be a conduit for authors and illustrators to get their work to readers, and for readers and aspiring writers to get that infusion of inspiration. I would love to have the technical skillset to illustrate books one day, but that is a muscle that is not nearly as developed or flexed as my writing. Maybe that’s my long term goal?

I have no doubt your author / illustrator days are coming quickly with how hard you’re working. With your experience crafting copy for results, and the ever growing need for brands to develop new “loyalists”, do you see more brands engaging in publishing? I’m reminded of two picture books we’ve owned and read to our children countless times – a tractor and farm concept book created by John Deer and a book of color types created by Pantone. While child-focused brands are easily accepted, like superheroes or cartoon and toy brands, it seems the more adult-oriented brands seem odd when they delve into kidlit. With the care we place on protecting children from advertising, yet also acknowledging that advertising still occurs and we still buy into it, should we expect the onslaught to increase or try and resist the movement of even more brands into books?

I definitely think that, as a marketer, there is always this desire in marketing departments (agency and larger corporations) to go into “new territories.” It might be a new technology, new platform, or partnership.

Content marketing has been hot for a while, especially because social media is such a hungry beast. In the two examples you gave, I think that it’s interesting because the picture books those brands made make “sense”. Kids love colors and farm things!

To answer your question though… I don’t think there will be an onslaught into children’s publishing necessarily. Companies with a tie that makes sense (like Lego, for example…who has been brilliant with their content infusing every medium possible) or emerging companies in the kid space…I can see that.

A brilliant foray into publishing that I saw recently was KiwiCo, where they created a board book with their games and a reoccurring frog character. That book stays in the home a lot longer than the craft, and kids can read and re-read and build that relationship with those characters as more boxes come. And if that explodes, who knows? Maybe that brand and their IP will make videos, a TV show… etc.

For non-kid brands though, I think that a great possibility is that they will delve into things like podcasting, which is happening already, rather than kid’s books.

Those are really great points, Shay! You bring so much insight in accepting branding as a positive, rather than negative, force for quality products and services. You’re a proud member of SCBWI, an organization that I believe does an excellent job maintaining its brand focus on children’s publishing. How has being an SCBWI member influenced you and do you recommend membership to other children’s book authors and illustrators?

I feel like everybody in the kidlit world recommends joining… and it’s because it really is an awesome organization.

When I first did, embarrassingly I feel like I didn’t take full advantage. Then, one day my friend, Angela Dominguez (who is an extremely talented and prolific kidlit author / illustrator of the Stella Diaz series and a ton of other children’s books), gave me a great suggestion, which is to participate in regional events.

It blew my mind because I got to meet so many people and even had my first critique, which was very supportive, even though looking back my work was nowhere close to ready for anything!

Now that we’re in a pandemic reality, I definitely say to join. The online conference is chalk full of great talks. The regional writer’s day here in SoCal was also a great way to get my more polished work out there for expert eyes. Don’t go in with expectations, of course, but think of it as just meeting new kidlit friends and getting your name out there to agents, editors, and other talented creators.

A pandemic reality is such a good description for the filter that now covers just about every facet of our lives. How has the pandemic changed or reinforced your views on communicating ideas and building trust?

I think the pandemic has really rattled all of us in a big way. I remembered reading this article about how we are all collectively grieving. So we’re all sharing this new reality, and more than ever we are using technology to connect us and, bringing it back, how important it is for us to be clear with our communication. Communication can take so many forms!

I find it fascinating that on Twitter, there are almost huge collective ‘jokes’ and ‘scandals’ … and niches that talk about these with fervor, yet outside these circles, people are often clueless!.

Tiktok has emerged as a fascinating avenue for communicating ideas such as doctors using Tiktok to share snackable content about vaccines.

And for those of us privileged to work from home, onboarding with a brand new company and team…you really have to be smart about how you communicate, manage, and build that trust and relationship. Before, it was much easier to bond over a meal.

What do you miss the most about pre-pandemic life and what is the first thing you’ll do if we “ever” have a moment where we can put it behind us like a bad dream and turn the page back to normalcy?

Oh, man. EVERYTHING.

I’m a big extrovert and I get a lot of energy and enjoyment from my relationships. I fiercely miss my friends. It tears me up when I think deeply about how my daughter’s grandparents and cousins and other family and friends have missed out on a whole year of her life. It’s literally a QUARTER of the time she’s been on this Earth!

I miss taking her to places like…a store. I feel incredibly privileged to be able to hole up at home with our small family and we’ve been safe so far knock on wood … but really, I think I miss people and venturing out beyond our 3 mile radius.

I’ve seen so many new faces pop up in the #writingcommunity during the pandemic. As bad and dangerous and inconvenient as it has been, one thing is for sure: The time we’ve been forced to stay home has invigorated many stories, ideas, and desires to tackle writing goals. Which brings us full circle to you! As we continue following your journey, what can we expect to see from you over the next 1-2 years? What are your goals and how can we best connect with and keep up to date?

In 1-2 years, I hope to have a debut book out published by one of the big 5 and now technically 4. Of course, there are many wonderful and smaller publishers I’d be thrilled with!

My other hope is that my new blog series, First Draft to Final Book, will be able to showcase some big creative powerhouses.

And it’d be a dream to have more creative work published and on the way. The ultimate dream is to be able to do creative work as my main source of income.

As for keeping up to date, my Twitter is probably where I’ve started blathering the most (@ShayFan) and occasionally try to update my personal site https://shayfan.com. My scribbles are @picturebookjourney on Instagram. And no, I can’t add Tiktok, though I was tempted to…I’ll go nuts.

My aim is for a new author / illustrator feature every Wednesday at a minimum on https://FirstDrafttoFinalBook.com (@First2FinalBook on Twitter, FirstDrafttoFinalBook on Instagram)…with a shameless call for any illustrators that are willing to share their journey!

That sounds great, Shay! I think there are a TON of authors and illustrator’s who will love knowing more about your work and join in on your journey, especially by sharing their own experiences through FirstDrafttoFinalBook!

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Now, go craft messages that resonate with YOUR audience!

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